Bob Owens

The saddest truth in politics is that people get the leaders they deserve

In bid to play down claims of stockpiling, DHS improbably claims agents are shooting 3x-4x more than our Army at war

Written By: Bob - Apr• 26•13

I would love to see actual evidence that the Department of Homeland Security is burning through 3-4 times as much ammunition per person than an Army at war:

Chaffetz, who chairs one of the House oversight subcommittees holding the hearing Thursday, revealed that the department currently has more than 260 million rounds in stock. He said the department bought more than 103 million rounds in 2012 and used 116 million that same year — among roughly 70,000 agents.

Comparing that with the small-arms purchases procured by the U.S. Army, he said the DHS is churning through between 1,300 and 1,600 rounds per officer, while the U.S. Army goes through roughly 350 rounds per soldier.

He noted that is “roughly 1,000 rounds more per person.”

“Their officers use what seems to be an exorbitant amount of ammunition,” he said.

Either DHS is over-training and wasting taxpayer money on ammunition if they are shooting this much per agent, or they are lying about how much they are stockpiling, which would beg the question, why are they stockpiling so much ammunition.

The answer—that they are seeking to counterbalance the 70+ million firearms and tens of billions  of rounds stockpiled by civilians preparing for societal collapse just since Obama came into office—makes the loudly trumpeting elephant in the room nearly impossible to ignore.

DHS is arming up to go to war on behalf of the government against the American people, they just don’t want to be forced to admit it.

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  1. Phelps says:

    The other option is that they aren’t stockpiling the ammo, the expenditures are phantom paper records, and we are dealing with one of the largest embezzlement schemes in history.

    • Erika says:

      I totally agree. I saw something months ago on Rense followed a link down a rabbit hole (you know how that goes) and it SAID: the address that the ammo was being requested from (one of the one’s they were able to procure using FOIA) was to a JUST set up
      LLC in Las Vegas. The truthseeker google earthed the address: a small building that was clearly not a
      weapons manufacturer depot! A FRONT COMPANY. He could not find anything out about any of the owners.
      I will try to find link but it was months ago someone uncovered BIG fraud linked to DHS ammo purchases that he believed were going to front companies not in any way selling ammo to anyone. But taking in BIG federal dollars with ZERO oversight. HM!!!!!

  2. Steven says:

    Phelps has a good point – but, I doubt it. Not being snarky, just practical – here’s why: that would require a bunch of different ammo producers to ALL be in on it.

    Everyone in top management, and, heck, even middle management, would have to be bought off.

    Again, not being snarky.

    I DO believe that agents could be shooting quit a bit, maybe even more – but, then you run into reality: Let’s say that Agent X shoots 2500 rounds at practice each year – more than the average, the other end of it is that **ALL** the other agents are ALSO shooting a ton of ammo too.

    It would be EASY to redact SS#’s and leave out last names, and show, say, 5000 qualification records to Congress – it would shut them up and put egg on their face. We’d never hear about this issue again. But ….. that’s not happening.

    They, the DHS, could offer to take members of Congress to training events and show them ammo expenditure. But … that’s not happening either.

    They’re only showing paper to a Congress far removed from the training sites – and certainly not having 20 to 100 agents show up telling their stories of shoot house exercises.

    I’m a grounded practical guy – and this is purely my opinion.


    • Karnak says:

      Depends on how good their inventory controls are, if they’re up to usual government standards then theft is probably rampant. If they don’t collect and count the empty cartridges then agents are almost certainly keeping some of what they supposedly expended at the range for their personal use. Wouldn’t be at all surprised to discover that manager level officials were stealing and reselling in bulk on the side. Do a surprise audit and you’re likely to discover that entire pallets recorded as being in inventory are missing.

      • Jess says:

        And when wholesale theft is discovered — would they be considered too-big-to-prosecute? I mean, this is all one big happy family*, eh?

        *La Cosa Nostra

    • Rob Crawford says:

      Since the purchase orders seem to go to newly-created shell companies, why would the ammo producers need to be involved?

  3. Right_2_Bear says:

    In defense of all the ammo buys needed for “training”, Humberto Medina of DHS said: “agents are exposed to a variety of situations” and “only have that weapon to protect their lives” “They can’t contact air support [like an officer in an army could.]”

    What rubbish. Last time I checked they had MRAPs, and Predators at their disposal. (Is he implying they need an Air Force too now?)

  4. david7134 says:

    Just look at the actions in Boston and Katrina and you will see who our government feels are the real enemy. It is you and I. As to conspiracy and embezzlement, you have to remember that these people are not bright enough to get a plan going like that.

    One other concept, why do you need hollow points to target practice? Most practice is a distances of less than 100 yards and thus bullet dynamics are not that much of an imperative as we would see with a long shot.

    Finally, why do we have authorities so well armored and trained? This just does not pass the smell test.

  5. Survival Skvez says:

    The military *train* their soldiers to aim and to use “short controlled bursts” whereas the DHS are probably letting their agents loose to ‘perfect’ the spray-and-pray philosophy.
    Spray-and-pray troops are easy to defeat, you just have to tease them away from their re-supply depots and then engage them at ineffective range and wait until they burn through all their ammo.
    A gun without ammo is just a very expensive club.

  6. MonkeyLeader says:

    I highly doubt that the DHS is over-training their soldiers.. ooops, officers. Considering the amount of ammo the police have blown through trying to take down Dorner, the two Hispanic women the cops thought were Dorner, and the take down of the two Boston Marathon bombers, perhaps the DHS should be training their officers MORE on how to shoot less by actually shooting straight and shooting more accurately, instead of blown mag after mag after mag in the hopes that one of their rounds actually hits something.

    It’s dangerous to think that these cops shoot their entire wad at the first sign of trouble like a scared rookie, instead of carefully assessing the situation and firing when they actually have a shot.

    Perhaps the training of police needs to mimic US soldiers, who are actually proficient with their weapon and know how to use restraint when operating their weapon.

    • Right_2_Bear says:

      “Perhaps the training of police needs to mimic US soldiers, who are actually proficient with their weapon and know how to use restraint when operating their weapon.”

      Heck, if they mimicked the average law abiding civilian gun owner’s discipline – that would be nice.

      • Rob Crawford says:

        Yes — the round that went through the office chair in Boston. If a concealed carry permit holder had fired that round, when do you think the firestorm would end? This century? Next?

    • Poshboy says:

      I’d be happy if they continue to be the buffoons that they are.

      I don’t want to face a force that conserves ammunition and has good target placement. I’d rather that they waste all of it, hitting nothing…

  7. Comarde X says:

    Bob says; “DHS is arming up to go to war on behalf of the government against the American people, they just don’t want to be forced to admit it.”

    I say, we (the III%) are doing the same to fight back (between what they be doing & we be doing; that’s why you can’t find ammo no more!)!!

    BTW; at least we (III%) have no problem admitting it!

    Death before slavery!

  8. David says:

    What they are saying is a flat out lie. They are buying up the market plain and simple. I have a close friend on the local PD here and he says the department cannot buy ammo. If he wants to qualify on his M4 in order to carry it he’s got to buy his own ammo so he can shoot and qualify. They have effectively bought up the market of almost all 223 and 308. Even 9mm, 40 and 45acp are very hard to find. I’ve never seen 22lr so expensive.

    • Zoowippy says:

      I don’t get the deal with 22lr. None of the DHS contract are for it, yet it has gone up more percentage wise than any other caliber.

      • Comarde X says:

        #1 prepper round, you might think 22lr ain’t a good defense round but then again; anyone who wants to be shot by one please raise your hand!

        Death before slavery!

      • parker says:

        I am puzzled by the situation with 22LR. The price, when available, is astronomic. Is it caused by manufacturers using their resources to produce 9MM, 40S&W, and 223 for DHS or by a public seeking to buy and stockpile 22LR at any expense?

      • Comrade X says:

        Methinks the latter.

        People are hoarding and speculating, but the fact of the matter is, it is out there if you want to pay the bill. The way I look at it is; in a free market, prices are what the market will bare therefore when the price goes up more supply becomes available and when the supply goes up enough; prices drop therefore we get the supply and demand equation.

        We could set the price at a price that is best for the collective and see how that works out!

        I’m predicting prices to drop this summer or before and also more people getting into the ammo business unless our governing collective decides to further restrict production. And if the governing collective goes too far they’re the ones that will be having the supply problem(one way or another), IMHO!

        Death before slavery!

  9. David says:

    I should also add Obama did campaign in 2007 that he wanted a civilian army just as well funded and just as well trained as our regular Army. Looks like he’s sticking to his word.

  10. At least one of those ammo suppliers was formed practically a day or two before they got their contract, and their address turned out to be a vacant lot in Vegas. Activist Post reported on it about a month ago.

    The other day on FB I saw an article saying the sequester is preventing DHS from actually receiving their ammo they ordered somehow. I dunno if that’s a temporary glitch, or what. Might be a distribution problem rather than a supply one.

    My guess is there is a mixture of fraud (a la Solyndra only with ammo) mixed in with the real orders, Obama’s “private army”, and just typical government stepping on its own toes – the sequester having unintended consequences.

    It makes me wonder if this “private army” on Obama’s wish list might NOT be DHS. If DHS is not getting their ammo, then 1. is it really being made and 2. if it is being made, is some of it getting diverted to locations DHS doesn’t know about, i.e. secret ammo dump for “private army”?

    People want to make a big deal out of DHS but it’s basically all the already existing agencies, with some more interconnectedness than before and a couple of toady boobs at the top. They’re not CHAOS, although they might have chaos.

    • louielouie says:

      now i’m confused.
      that activist post / ammo story reads like a cross between fast and furious and solyndra.

    • PapaSmurf says:

      “…couple of toady boobs at the top.”

      Now that you mention it, Janet Napolitano does look positively reptilian.

    • Rob Crawford says:

      Obama’s “army” is OFA and gangs. He’s from Chicago; the Chicago machine isn’t opposed to the gangs there, it’s in a power-sharing arrangement.

  11. Survival Skvez says:

    Are the *number* of ‘officers’ the DHS has the misleading figure? Is there a whole secret army of ‘Gestapo’ troops being trained out there (using all this ammo) that’s being kept off the books?

    • Charlie Hargrave says:

      ding ding ding I think we may have a winner here.

    • Big Country says:

      Interesting concept. My brother is a federal agent and even he said that his dept. has been having issues getting ammo… in fact quite a few months back the .gov actually had ordered all of the agents in his agency to turn in their sidearms! The finally got them back but it is an interesting point that SOME feds like my FedBro were disarmed (and only re-armed due to Senatorial influence) while ‘others’ are getting PDWs and MRAPs… Who be these others be the question savvy?

      • Buck Wild says:

        The Portland VA hospital took delivery of two pallets of ammo, We know the Social Security office put in a big order, Sounds to me like all fed offices are getting ready for some really pissed off people.

    • Rob Crawford says:

      Where are the missing people? Where are the secret camps?

  12. Real Deal says:

    You have to wonder, why do they want more gun laws when they don’t bother to enforce the existing ones?

    Same for immigration.

  13. Jake says:

    350 rounds seems really low, but then again: not everybody in the military actually shoots. I seriously doubt mechanics, cooks and accounting clerks need to do much shooting. Where as I’m pretty confident your average 11B or 0311 probably shoots way more the 350 rounds during an average year.

    Hell, just doing SI’s Close Range Gun Fighting class will burn up 600+ rounds in 2 days. In my case I burned up over a thousand, but I have a really good excuse: I was having fun.

    All the same: a better explanation from our government servants needs to be demanded.

  14. Ferd Berfel says:

    My theory is that this is a form of cheap gun control. The government is buying up as much ammo as it can to reduce/restrict the supply available to the public thus driving up the price, making the cost of ammo prohibitive to many/most shooters. This is MY theory, and I’m sticking to it!

    • Rob Crawford says:

      If so, then the next administration can sell the stockpiles and bring in the Golden Age of American Riflery.

  15. bubba says:

    I’m no operator or whatever the term is but I carry regularly and train weekly. I easily burn up over 6,000 rounds, combined in a year,of various calibers – both rifle and handgun – keeping my trigger finger and eye sharp. I reload to keep costs down and I also use .22 LR for the savings too.

  16. Craig says:

    Every commenter is missing the essential point…..why are there (innumerable) federal employees carrying arms? Selected officers in Secret Service, FBI, Coast Guard, Customs/Border, Interior, FAA (pilots), maybe INS, maybe CIA (although they have NO domestic authority for law enforcement), maybe selected Defense LEO such as NCIS, OSI, CID……..yes. These officers need guns.

    Absolutely no way for agencies such as Education, HUD, HHS, IRS, ATF (yes, ATF—–their role ought to be limited to industry regulation and investigation…don’t need guns to run rabbit trails),Commerce, and so on.

    Guns in FedGov employment are the new status symbol. Couple that with the highly militarized civilian law enforcement community and you have a seriously volatile “us vs them” mentality. Witness metro Boston last week where TommyTactical was on his rampage.

    Guess what’s gonna happen when the shit breaks bad?

  17. 91B40 says:

    I think we’re all aware WHY they’re acquiring this much ammo. My question is…WHERE is it?

    • JD says:

      The million dollar question. What if someone were to follow a truck coming out of lake city and see where it goes?

      • Rob Crawford says:

        Tailing an ammunition truck may not be the wisest choice of action, even if there’s nothing unusual happening. Just sayin’.

  18. navyvet says:

    Since when do you use hollow point ammunition for training?

  19. Poshboy says:

    The big story is that DHS _lied_ to a Congressional oversight committee. That is confirmation that _something big_ is going on. You dissemble, forget, ramble, misinterpret–but you never lie to a Committee under oath during a hearing.

    I’m impressed Chairman Issa even allowed the hearing; that in itself is progress of sorts, and shows that our concerns are reaching the right RHOB oversight offices.

    Missing pallets of ammo, ammo burn-through rates during training, stockpile locations–it is all secondary to hiding the big hairy idea no one in DHS leadership wants to discuss: the department’s agents and minions firing on Americans during upcoming crises. And that topic was not discussed during the hearing, making the outcome a victory of sorts for Big Sis.

    DHS will lie until the evil act of opening fire actually occurs because the penalties for Congressional perjury are worth risking–or serving–to protect that enormous dark secret.

    And these fools at DHS think they are doing these actions to “protect America.” What blind useful idiots they are…

    All of this makes me think of the Stauffenberg plot of July 1944 and how the plotters manipulated the Reserve Army into overthrowing the German government and its security forces. (At least for five hours.) These preliminary DHS actions make me think similar hidden machinations are at work today in our government.

  20. OpenTheDoor says:

    Hollow points are against the articles of war. THAT is enough said.

    • Rob Crawford says:

      They’re not a war-fighting agency. Hollow points are perfectly legal for law enforcement.

      If not, then the next person who uses a hollow point round in self defense could be facing a war crimes tribunal in Europe.

  21. Mister Jimmy says:

    They don’t have to ‘practice’ with expensive hollow points. I don’t think it matters how much ammo they have. The ones I have seen appear to be flabby middle-age heavy drinkers and over-eaters. They won’t last in a face-off unless they have help from the US military.

  22. RM says:

    Could it be that this ammo is being shipped to Syria?

    • Chuck says:

      Wrong calibers. Most of the DHS ammo is .40 S&W with .223 a distant second place. For Syria you’d need 7.62×39, 7.62.54R and 9mm Makarov.

  23. Ruben says:

    Another aspect I would like to add are these things. When it comes to things like oil, gas, metals and things like this, these things are sold in bulk to holding companies who then send it to factories and the like. But the initial purchase is actually in the hands of a few. Some time ago, one of the holding companies (I believe an affiliate of Goldman Sachs) was caught hording aluminum (read: speculation). I think what I am saying is that one of the possibilities is that several resellers are holding onto certain commodities to try to drive up the price before the let it go. You see this is how it works. Lets consider oil/gas. When the price goes up, we like to blame a bunch of arabs at OPEC. But in reality, they take and transport the oil at a more-or-less the same price. Then speculators with a LOT of capitol buy it in bulk. Then THEY are the ones who determine the price for the rest of us. The profit speculators make is insane. The oil workers make is constant. I surmize that someone is hording materials knowing of the big pending gov’t contracts and the civilian hording going on. This is the only angle I have not seen explored yet.

  24. mike says:

    have you tried to buy ammo lately?

  25. Omegaman2u says:

    If we are going to discuss the “why’s” and “wherefores” of the government controlling most munitions, I believe we should place a graphic illustration of what the end justification might be from gun confiscation and/or simply taking away the very thing the gun is designed to use. Ronald Reagan said one of the most dangerous statements in the world is; “I’m from the governmemt and I’m here to help.” I watched them help at Waco, I watched them help at Ruby Ridge.

    Allow me to offer a different scenario in the “why” and “how many” issue of our current ammo problem. I’m not asking anyone to agree with me, just take a moment and consider my beliefs, eat the melon spit out the seeds. A few understand, the masses haven’t a clue. I’ll probably shake your world of so called “reality” right off. First permit me to provide a premise for my comments from a much despised book but a book that has NEVER failed, Jesus speaking expressley of the end days, our days: Matthew 24:21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. Here is your earth shaker; America MUST be reduced as the supreme world power to make way for the biblical One World Government, or more contemporary, Bush’s New World Order, the Satanically run UN must begin a rise in world dominance and power. Since it isn’t likely that some military power could defeat us, think for a moment of just how it could be done. There are many ways of doing this, making it happen. Most have already been applied and have been exceedingly effective, from the infiltrating of our time honored government in Washington DC by hard, left leaning sosialist (actually communist), to destroying our beief in God, to a total destruction of our national morality in all walks of life, that includes baby killing and homosexulity (no, I do not hate the homosexual, just the sin they wallow in). Destroy a nation’s strong, moral underpenning and that nation will collapse from it own weight. The final amd MOST effective means in establishing a national coup is to attack and destroy a nation’s financial system, this is now far under way and many believe in the final stages. In order to have a one world currency one must eliminate all existing currencies. Hence, the dollar is history. Our money system in America is all but dead, we’re just too stupid to realize it and bury it, the entire nation has been set up for several years now to adapt from real currency (the dollar) to digital money, or EFTS, Electrical Financial/Funds Transfer System. Have you noticed the hand scanners in virtually all health, doctor’s, and business offices today? Today hand scanning is voluntary, tomorrow it will be mandatory (law), in most corporations scanning is already mandatory Revelation 13:17  And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. No nation on earth can possibly recover from a twenty trillion dollar national debt! It would be tantamount to one person drinking all of the water from the Atlantic ocean. America is up S-Creek financially. The average American will let you have his wife, but don’t you dare come for his bank account (his god, his money). When (not if) the banks close their doors all hell is going to break loose across our country. Look for foreign troops on our streets right along with our own military and civilian law agencies (Boston and Katrina were a type of dress rehersal, martial law), Oh, did I mention that many of the returning GI’s from Iraq and Afghanistan are to be placed on our streets by “our governmnet”, and did I mention that a great many of them have known (documented), serious mental problems now? Would these trops fire on American’s? What do you think? The final change from a free republic to a communist One World government headed by the UN will not be a bloodless one. Let me emphasize the following statement:NEVER UNDERESTIMATE A GOVERNMENT THAT HAS BEEN INFILTRATED BY SOCIALIST/COMMUNIST AND A COMPLIANT MILITARY AND LAW ENFORCEMENT BACKING.Those of us who served in our military know for a fact that although they never reveal their gameplan, the military working in collusion with state and local law enforcement are way ahead of the civilian population in contengency plans.Although I highly respect our patriots who are survivalit, I feel sad for them because no matter how much the train, the government and policing agencies know their every move and plan, when the time arrives to close the banks and initiate the NWO fully, these patriots will be the first to feel the heel of overwwhelming power. My guess would be that every faction has already been infiltrated by federal agents for years now. With today’s survellence technology one cannot spit without being observed. If one knows how to read the signs and resist being caught up in majoring in minors (propaganda), one can see many of the signs clearly as to what our government is prepairing for, like herding the population into smaller and smaller geographical areas over he past fifty years(they call them biospheres, but a type of control); the manuvering of certain races into inner cities as opposed to surberban areas, again, a control measure.The deliberate dumbing down or the herd. The most important and final move by a tyrannical governmnet is to totally disarm the populace knw that a tiger declawed cannot fight and survive. The government will come any door available to disarm America, one effective way is to dominate and control munitions.A $1500.00 rifle then becomes just a nice toy. It is coming folks, the signs are becoming more and more apparent daily.Even today’s America is far and away more socilist and different in the America of my day. The continued wars in the mid east draining our financial and material coffers and the rate of illegal immigration (the Democrats voting stock designed to keep Obama in office) alone will sink America; If that slows down (which I don’t see it doing), I will guarantee you that Obama’s socialized medicine plan will finish us off, and these are only two of many woes to come. In MHO Barack Obama along with his left leaning wife, are two of the most dangerous people to ever tarnish our White House. We need to start looking at the big picture because all of these things will escalate exponentially.

    Still asking why they want our guns and ammo? When any nation begins to create, or rule by FEAR, the change isn’t too far away. 9/11 bathed America in fear by design.

    • EyesWideOpen says:

      Thats it in a nutshell mate, trouble is most lemmings will believe ANYTHING but the truth, it is easier to get the mindless hordes to believe a lie than it is to convince them they have been lied to. No doubt most will wave it off as a “conspiracy theory” I would say to them that 6 million Jews thought the final solution was a conspiracy theory, the smart ones got the fuck out of Europe when they saw the writing on the wall……….

  26. Omegaman2u says:

    I apologize for the numerous typo’s in my previous my scenario concerning “where is all the ammo going….” I’ll just attribute it to old age ;=)at least i hope my very lengthly ‘book'(sorry about that) was helpful or enlightening to some. Someone once said if I were asked the time I would tell the individual how to build a watch, maybe this is true ;=) I’m knocking on the door of
    seventy-three so I’ll blame it (my errors) on the absence of millions of burned our neurons. God bless all you good old Americans!! Keep the information highway alive, it is our only hope of continued communication.

    Lot’s of good comments on this subject and thankfully they didn’t turn into personal arguments like many of these issues do. Our enemies just love to see us arguing among ourselves, especially trivial junk.


  27. jamesbrown says:

    a retired fed agent has said in utube video that gangs are going to be used to clear cities for many reasons. feds said to have treaties with all major gangs. fed agents have no real incentive to go in guns blazing when really they are just waiting for retirement. that is his reasoning for the long stand off at waco. the gangs dont care their pay is collected by plunder. ammo could be going there

    • EyesWideOpen says:

      Saw that, guy says gangs are to be deputised, issued with tactical gear (uniforms) and are to be allowed to keep whatever plunder they can get their hands on, nevermind the rapes and murders that they will have immunity from, BUT I imagine once the gangs do the dirty work they will then become victims themselves, the Elite dont like ANY competition when it comes to their ‘turf’

  28. EyesWideOpen says:

    Ok for a start DHS has purchased over 1.5 BILLION rounds of .4o cal ammo, so lets relate that to rounds per agent?? They are gearing up for civil war, most likely involving gun confiscations I imagine, here choose any source you like for the 1,500,000,000 rounds number:

    • EyesWideOpen says:

      If that link wont work just google “DHS purchases 1.5 billion rounds”, there are dozens of sources for the figure

  29. RA says:

    Could it be that the ammo is being shipped to other countries to help so called rebels( notice the terminology is not insurgents when they are fomented by the US?) in heated areas around the globe, epecially Syria

    • Bob says:

      As the ammo being purchased is 40 S&W pistol ammunition used by U.S. law enforcement but not used by any foreign military force in any quantity, I strongly doubt it.

  30. walt says:

    Wonder what country they are selling the ammo too- or holding it for?
    Perhaps it is to cause a shortage to the public?
    In any case- i don’t believe them.

  31. Kenzob Breaze says:

    I believe the ammo being hoarded by DHS is not just for them, but also for those who will be fighting with them, wherever they come from. If the American people stick together, DHS and their “helpers” will never win, and they know it.

  32. paschn says:

    Hmm, This outfit was “given” the contract for supplying the mankiller shells to DHS;

    A rather strange site indeed. Either this outfit is owned wholly or in part by the dual citizenship Israelis that control D.H.S. OR there’s gonna be a hot time in the ‘ole U.S. soon. Especially in light of Israel training the sycophants-in-Blue how to “handle” domestic extremists and “terrorists”. Amazing what a cop/soldier will do to his fellow citizens for a nice paycheck and health insurance, eh?
    Has anyone else noticed how they, (DHS), are quietly “morphing” their charter targets, (terrorists), into “extremists” and anti-semetic hate groups? One could say it’s identical to what the Bolsheviks did in Russia, pre genocide.

    It’s getting very scary here people..